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    UU Event Pokemon

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    Sasami
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    UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sasami on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:12 pm

    With the addition of Shuten event Pokemon, some UUs have become more viable. Now the question is, should they be allowed in UU tournaments here? How about the UU Dojo? Some are pretty harmless (such as Leech Seed Oddish or Air Slash Natu) but there has been some concern over the more attack-oriented ones (Flare Blitz Flareon is a good example).

    Should we allow them all and see what happens? Ban certain ones that seem like they could become too centralizing? Or should we ban them all period?

    Allowing them all at first seems like the best idea since it's hard to judge exactly what will happen to a metagame. The main issue with that, though, is UU play might be kinda unbalanced for a bit if a Pokemon DOES end up being too powerful. Technically, someone could totally abuse a certain event Pokemon and get easy wins.

    The following three Pokemon are the biggest "threats" I can think of. But as you'll see, they aren't quite as threatening as they seem.



    Calm Mind Dewgong

    Likely moveset:

    Bold/Calm Nature with Leftovers or Damp Rock

    -Rain Dance/Surf/Hidden Power Electric or Grass
    -Rest
    -Calm Mind
    -Ice Beam/Surf

    Possible EV spread: 252 HP/252 Defense/6 Special Attack

    On one side...: It functions almost as a mini-Suicune with reliable recovery and immunity to status. After a few Calm Minds, both defenses are quite high. Has STAB Ice Beam, which no Pokemon are immune to.

    On the other side...: It's stats are very mediocre, even with Calm Mind boosts. It needs to have someone else on the team set up Rain Dance (which grants it only a few turns of HydroRest) or set it up itself which means it loses important type coverage. Dewgong has a shallow movepool and no way to stop opponents from PHazing.

    Does it have a true counter? Yes. Calm Mind Dewgong is actually easier to counter in UU than in OU because of Pokemon like Politoed, Poliwrath, and Quagsire being so common. In fact, those Pokemon are all excellent counters. Quagsire has to watch out for Hidden Power Grass but if it has that, than it doesn't have Surf or Ice Beam which means it can be walled by either grass types or steel/fire types easily. If Dewgong isn't being played on a Rain Dance team then it has to set up Rain Dance on it's own which means it only gets one attack. If it IS on a Rain Dance team, the rain can be stalled out or switched to something else (such as Sunny Day).



    Flare Blitz Flareon

    Likely moveset:

    Adamant or Lonely with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (a +speed nature may also be used)

    -Flare Blitz
    -Return
    -Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat
    -Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat

    Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP or 252 HP/252 attack/6 speed (some sets might use special attack EVs for Overheat)

    On one side...: Flash Fire and excellent special defense allow it to switch in easier than a lot of sweepers. With it's ridiculous attack stat, it can deal tons of damage with STAB Flare Blitz. Choice Band makes it especially strong while Choice Scarf helps it get around that low speed. Overheat means that it can hit hard from both sides of the spectrum.

    On the other side...: It's very slow for a sweeper and can't take physical hits. Choice Scarf helps but it loses power. Either way, it's usually locked into a move which makes countering easier. It's weak to stealth rock and has awful type coverage.

    Does it have a true counter? Yes. Torkoal is probably the best counter there is, although other defensive fire-types like Camerupt can work. Any physical wall that isn't weak to fire will probably be ok. Baton Pass or Curse sets are easily beaten by PHazers or Taunters. Revenge killing is easy as it's very slow and frail.



    Volt Tackle Luxray

    Likely moveset:

    Adamant or Jolly with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (possibly Life Orb and a -sp.def nature, especially on a set using Thunderbolt or Discharge)

    -Volt Tackle
    -Return
    -Ice Fang
    -Quick Attack/Crunch/Thunderbolt or Discharge

    Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP (possibly some special attack EVs)

    On one side...: Intimidate gives it enough bulk to switch in and makes it an excellent lead. STAB Volt Tackle from Luxray is extremely strong, especially when Luxray has a Choice Band. Luxray has enough special attack that it can run mixed sets making it harder to properly counter. It can make up for it's low speed with a Choice Scarf.

    On the other side...: Luxray has a pretty bad movepool aside from Volt Tackle and Crunch. It's special defense is low and it's defense isn't too amazing either. It's slow and easy to revenge-kill. Luxray often needs a choice item to reach it's full potential which means it's locked into a move. Several UU Pokemon are immune to electric.

    Does it have a true counter? Yes. Steelix, Quagsire, Lanturn, Golem...the list goes on and on. Anything that's immune to electric (and not weak to ice) and has good defense will normally counter Luxray. If it's running a mixed set with Hidden Power then it's missing one of it's physical moves which means it loses coverage anyway. Many Pokemon are faster and can OHKO. Volt Tackle recoil wears it down fast, especially if it has a Life Orb.

    I realize that all of these sets are very basic and more will certainly appear. But the point is, all of these Pokemon can be countered in UU. In fact, these Pokemon may actually perform better in OU. I've run damage calcs and the whole nine yards...these threats aren't as bad as they seem.

    This thread is not meant to be a poll but a discussion. Do YOU feel we should allow event UUs in UU tournaments or the UU Dojo? Why or why not? I'll be deleting one-sentence posts that say things like "omg flareon with flare blitz will ohko everything!!11one".

    I tried my best to include both sides of the argument but my own personal opinion is that we should allow these guys until they prove to be impossible to counter and/or over-centralizing.


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Tobi on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:17 pm

    Don't ban them.

    Meh, even if flare has a nice att, it's speed....well...it's rather lacking.

    I'm planing on getting all of these, and my UU team is still the same.

    I might use them in OU, and i've got like, OVER 9 THOASAND eved OUed pokemon, and i should make a team useing them.
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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Zenith on Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:03 pm

    What the hell happened to Solrock and Lunatone? XD


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sasami on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:20 pm

    Lord Ryu wrote:What the hell happened to Solrock and Lunatone? XD

    If you honestly feel that Solrock and Lunatone are "threats" in UU then, well...I don't know what to say o_0.


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Shine on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:37 pm

    Dewgong would almost certainly have to ditch Surf for Ice Beam despite Rain Dance pumping up its power, because there are plenty of Pokemon that get Water Absorb or Dry Skin which would inevitably force a switch. If a Parasect were to switch into Dewgong's Surf, the next Pokemon would inevitably suffer a direct hit from Spore. Poliwrath can set up a Sub, Hypnosis, or just Focus Punch, Toxicroak can also set up a Sub or just Focus Punch right off the bat, Quagire can Curse or Amnesia, etc... And all of those are relatively comfortable with Stealth Rock, I'd like to mention.

    Flareon, like Tobi said (he's been right about a lot of stuff lately...), is probably too slow to be used as a REAL threat. It'll be seen more often, for sure (I plan on using mine), but I don't think it'll centralize the metagame or anything. It's basically a slower Staraptor at this point.

    Luxray, I think, is potentially the most threatening of all of these because he really has the most options open to him, easy. He can mix, Intimidate makes him seem bulkier, Rivalry works well with Attract, he gets T-Wave to cripple, etc. He's easily more threatening than the other two because of the fact that he has more options.

    But that's just my take. *shrug*
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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sasami on Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:29 pm

    Luxray is definitely the most threatening, I agree. But I don't feel he'd be broken in UU or anything...he has clear counters and mediocre speed (making revenge killing easy). If he runs a Choice item then he's locked into a move. If he runs Life Orb he's going to die FAST from recoil damage.


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Shine on Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:29 pm

    Sasami wrote:Luxray is definitely the most threatening, I agree. But I don't feel he'd be broken in UU or anything...he has clear counters and mediocre speed (making revenge killing easy). If he runs a Choice item then he's locked into a move. If he runs Life Orb he's going to die FAST from recoil damage.
    Right. I just don't see any reason why ANY of these Pokemon could be considered "Broken." They're not Garchomp. Razz

    And if I may note, none of them get Stealth Rock, and Dewgong's too physically weak to get much use out of Ice Shard. Razz
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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sasami on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:29 am

    Since no one else has anything to add, I think it would be best to just wait and see what happens but not ban anything from UU for now =).

    Closed.


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sagehawk on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:50 am

    Sasami wrote:Since no one else has anything to add, I think it would be best to just wait and see what happens but not ban anything from UU for now =).

    Closed.
    yeah plus i honestly dont see the point to shuten event pokemon then if you cant use them on the site.. plus only a few are out not everyone has them so it would be easy to detect a 'false' shuten even pokemon... for example if all out event pokemon are accounted for and one appears some where it would obviously not be allowed.


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Sasami on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:57 am

    Suen wrote:
    Sasami wrote:Since no one else has anything to add, I think it would be best to just wait and see what happens but not ban anything from UU for now =).

    Closed.
    yeah plus i honestly dont see the point to shuten event pokemon then if you cant use them on the site.. plus only a few are out not everyone has them so it would be easy to detect a 'false' shuten even pokemon... for example if all out event pokemon are accounted for and one appears some where it would obviously not be allowed.

    I don't think you understand the point of this thread ^^;. It wasn't about banning any of them completely, but rather just banning certain ones from the UU Dojo and UU tournaments =).

    But I do agree.

    (and yeah, it'd be EXTREMELY difficult to fake any of them since I'm the only person who knows all of the legal IV/nature combinations)


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    Re: UU Event Pokemon

    Post by Prostiboots on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:20 am

    O_o

    Solrock and Lunatone with access to Cosmic Power and healing could actually do a number to UU.


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